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    « Hide The Decline: Lawsuit? | Main | Senator Barack Obama: Immigration »

    April 27, 2010

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    Dan

    That's really how people look at it: these are IMMIGRANTS, and they have the RIGHT to be above suspicion!

    ...except that they're committing a federal crime. In Arizona, a state AND federal crime.

    If someone gets pulled over in suspicion of drunk driving, guess what? They have to produce their "papers": in other words, their driver's license and possibly their vehicle registration.

    I think, on principle, it should be far easier to immigrate to a free country than it currently is in the U.S. But the U.S. isn't particularly that hard to immigrate to in comparison with a lot of countries.

    If you don't want immigrants to be illegal, that's a separate issue. Arizona is within its rights to enforce this legislation, which by the way is federal policy anyway.

    derek

    i don't know if the country that founded fascism is where i'd look to for advice on police operations.

    And for all the crying you all do about the constitution, it seriously doesn't strike any of you as odd for a law to demand that you prove yourself innocent upon the whim of a cop?

    "If someone gets pulled over in suspicion of drunk driving, guess what? They have to produce their "papers": in other words, their driver's license and possibly their vehicle registration."

    That's the point, how the hell do you get pulled over for illegal immigration?

    This law is practically guaranteed to be found unconstitutional. Being asked for identification during a lawful stop is different from making the seeking of identification a lawful stop in and of itself.

    Plus there's the practicality problem. In america, proving citizenship isn't that easy. There is no national id card. Most people don't have a passport, most people don't carry their social security card or birth certificate on their person.

    The second joe redneck gets thrown in jail because the only thing he has on his person is a driver's license is the second this law gets repealed. If it isn't struck down in court first.

    James T.

    Derek = Dumb ass Democrat talking points

    In other words, Derek = Didn't read the Law and doesn't know what he is talking about.

    derek

    You willing to take a stand that his law will survive a court challenge?

    derek

    Hell, if obama's smart, he'd challenge the law based on supremacy clause issues and make it a rallying point.

    This country doesn't have time for poorly thought out right wing reactionary nonsense.

    James T.

    "This country doesn't have time for poorly thought out right wing reactionary nonsense."

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

    What the hell do you call the Obamacare? Wait! I know... Poorly thought out left wing reactionary unconstitutional nonsense passed with bribes against the will of the American people.

    Derek = Dooh!

    PC

    Honestly, I don't care what other countries do. We need to do what is best for the citizens of this great country who pay the taxes. If you aren't a citizen, yes you should still be treated with respect and dignity, but you should not have the same rights as the rest of us. If we would stop giving illegals State-issued identification and health benefits, then perhaps those documents would mean something when we're asked for them.

    jimspice

    It's laughable that you don't see the incompatibility of this legislation with your core beliefs. Unless snooping government agents have suddenly become a conservative tenet.

    James T.

    What's laughable Jimmyspice is that you comment without reading the bill.

    TerryN

    The law today requires legal immigrants to have their documentation (green card) on their person at all times and to produce to law enforcement on demand.

    What part of that don't people understand and why doesn't the corrupt media make this little point more widely known?

    Happenstance

    "The law today requires legal immigrants to have their documentation (green card) on their person at all times and to produce to law enforcement on demand."

    Well according to the bill, the language itself says, in the commission of the crime. Big misconception that the left is throwing out there. While I do worry that some police officers may abuse this, the majority will hopefully apply this in the way the law works. If you commit any crime, civil or criminal, any citizen should have to be required to produce documents.

    But where is the outrage with Obamacare that basically states the same thing? Remember Obama stating that their is no health care for illegals? Feigning outrage...hypocrisy...

    Today's left...

    Happenstance

    "Hell, if obama's smart, he'd challenge the law based on supremacy clause issues and make it a rallying point."

    For someone who pretends to be a constitutional scholar, the supremacy clause usually only takes form when laws contradict. As understood, this law mirrors the Federal statute that has been on the books for nearly 5 decades. This is not a case for preemption.

    For more information from a lawyer who has worked with preemption and immigration:
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/apr/28/arizona-acts-as-washington-dithers/

    Just look at all the laws that are state and federal books. There are federal statutes for homicide. Feds can take those cases or offer them to the states. In some instances, both can try. A modern instance of preemption would be the California law regarding marijuana vs. the feds.

    Maybe instead of playing a law scholar on a forum, you go and finish your poli-sci degree...

    derek

    There is a difference between lack of enforcement and preemption.

    Any person that speaks on this subject and doesn't mention the Hazelton case isn't saying much. And if you don't know the case you definitely should stay clear of the discussion.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jul/27/nation/na-hazleton27

    "A federal judge on Thursday struck down a Pennsylvania city's ordinance that sought to punish landlords who rent to illegal immigrants and employers who hire them, ruling that immigration law is the province of the federal government alone."

    BlackinMiami

    "I say, let's be more like Europe."

    Sometmes we want to be like Socialist Europe, and sometimes we don't. Where are our standards?

    I would be more inclined to agree with Tim James in Alabama that Congress should move towards making English our official language, much more than I would be to agree with that law that in Arizona which will only serve to violate the most American of us. After all whenever we travel to any other non-English Speaking nation we are expected to speak the language, take their driving test in their country's official language and transact local business in such a language.

    While the intent of the Law maybe good and may withsatnd the test of constitutioality, my concern is that some states do not have the resources in terms of man power to execute immigration laws and this can very well lead to cases of racial profiling. The states and local police forces have their positives, but we have seen time and again that there are those who use the law to carry out their own agenda many a time.

    Karl Hungus

    Suddenly "reading the bill" is JT's rallying cry? It wasn't too long ago the right had problems reading big bills...

    James T.

    So ya still didn't read it, did ya Huggybear.

    Cookers

    Karl, seems the left has literacy problems of their own.

    Just read the freakin' bill.

    It is really no differnt than Wisconsin's older seat belt law. Prior to the current standard, cops couldn't stop someone to see if they they had their seat belt on but they could ticket the person if they discovered the person did not have their seat belt on.

    And how do lefties not understand that these people are illegal aliens. Illegal. Even if we were to begin hunting them down, they are here illegally and should be shown the door.

    And if you are here legally, you have nothing to worry about.

    BlackinMiami

    "And how do lefties not understand that these people are illegal aliens. Illegal. Even if we were to begin hunting them down, they are here illegally and should be shown the door."

    Show them the door uh?

    I wonder if the America we know and love now would have been the America it is now if we had shown the huddled masses of Europe the door when they came in droves. Oh! I forgot, they were Europeans, nevermind.

    How about immigration reform that will correct the problem as it exist while we work on securing our borders, real defense spending?

    It is kinda funny the way we open our arms to overreaching laws while at the same time championing civil liberties and individual freedom. Wasn't too long ago that these were core tenets of the Conservative movement.

    sheepdog

    GOTCHA!......you just recycled an old freshman comp essay!

    Joyce

    "Oh! I forgot, they were Europeans, nevermind."

    How many of those Europeans arrived in this country by sneaking over the border? How many were here illegally? How many stole the identity of legal citizens? How many assimilated by learning the language to improve their chances for a better life... to live the American dream?

    BlackinMiami

    "How many of those Europeans arrived in this country by sneaking over the border? How many were here illegally? How many stole the identity of legal citizens? How many assimilated by learning the language to improve their chances for a better life... to live the American dream?"

    I will assume you know your Geography so I am not going to say there was no border to cross.

    But why don't you answer me this. How many of those who cross the borders from Mexico have learnt English, assimilated and are worthwhile,productive contributing citizens of this country?

    That is more the question. The vices you speak of above are not unique to any one migrant group, the Chicago and NY mafias as well as several other formerly notorious groups have come out of European migrants. The fortunate thing, Joyce, is that these undesirables are very often in the minority.

    As for how many of those European migrants were illegal, we had a completely different enforcement of immigration policy at the turn of the century than we do now. Things are a lot different now, our population has more than doubled, resources are less available and opportunities are not there like they use to.
    The vices you speak of are not unique to Mexicans and those who cross the southern border; some our very own here are as guilty. Houston, Tx is the credit card fraud capital of the world. Those in that business of identitity theft are not overwhelminly Mexicans or people of hispanic heritage.

    This is not an argument about reforming, and or implementing our immigration poilcy. We are a nation of law and as such the laws must be followed. The issue here is greater; we are looking at a State passing law( in the absence of firm action by the Federal Govt.) that have likely outcome of infringing on individual freedom. There is nothing to celebrate here. The notion that wave of other migrant groups, at different times in our history were without negative consequence is dishonest. Every wave of migrant group brings with them their unique challenge to the law of the land. The treatment of Mexiacans will be different because they are Mexiacans and that's it.

    Karl Hungus

    Why hasn't California fallen into the ocean?

    Cuz Arizona sucks.

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