"The Bill would forbid any student in the brigade to participate in “engaging in religious instruction, conducting worship services, providing instruction as part of a program that includes mandatory religious instruction or worship, constructing or operating facilities devoted to religious instruction or worship, maintaining facilities primarily or inherently devoted to religious instruction or worship, or engaging in any form of religious proselytization.” That means no church attendance or witnessing." -The Voice Magazine.com
The Bill passed in Senate March 26th, 2009. On a Senate Roll Call vote
H.R.1388: To reauthorize and reform the national service laws.
OH NO, NOT THE EVIL SOCIALIST AMERICORP, PUSHING THE LIBERAL AGENDA.
Wait this isn't 1992, looks like I have to update my flashcards.
Posted by: Derek | March 30, 2009 at 02:35 PM
Derek, can you get out of your "conservatives and Republicans are evil, stupid and morons" mode for 5 minutes?
The requirements in Section 125 are in direct violation of the first amendment, especially the one James quotes above. Right now the program in voluntary, but if it becomes mandatory service as Obama has stated on several occasions in the campaign, young people will be largely prohibited from practicing and sharing their faith.
Posted by: hsgbdmama | March 30, 2009 at 03:03 PM
This may be a rumor but....
I heard after posting derek fell down and broke his neck rushing out the door to be the first person to sign on with the"youth brigade"!
Posted by: maddypie2 | March 30, 2009 at 03:15 PM
ROFLOL!!!!
Posted by: hsgbdmama | March 30, 2009 at 03:22 PM
Pretty sure, section 125 just refers to what does and doesn't count as community service.
No one here has ever had court mandated community service? Teaching sunday school? Not community service. Going out with your church to feed the homeless? That's community service.
Posted by: Derek | March 30, 2009 at 03:25 PM
So does freedom of religion mean freedom from religion? It's a tangled web we weave.
Posted by: Jay | March 30, 2009 at 03:46 PM
But let me explain further. Americorp provides volunteers to a variety of community service organizations. Some of them faith based organizations. What these organizations can't do is use the volunteers to lobby, or to push religion, or any thing like that. Hence the prohibitions in section 125.
You guys should join up. You'd be doing some good in the world, and you might actually learn something.
Posted by: Derek | March 30, 2009 at 03:48 PM
Not according to the text of the bill:
"Prohibited Activities- A participant in an approved national service position under this subtitle may not engage in the following activities"
Sounds like you may not do these things at all. If it simply "didn't count," wouldn't it say that? 'Prohibited' and 'may not engage in' means one is not allowed to do or be involved in the activities listed.
Derek, I am very active in my church, and we do go out in the community. Try to learn more about us rather than throwing out your uninformed sweeping generalizations.
Posted by: hsgbdmama | March 30, 2009 at 04:03 PM
"Sounds like you may not do these things at all."
Only because it's taken out of context from the section of federal law it will be placed in.
Posted by: Derek | March 30, 2009 at 04:13 PM
Jay is correct, it is a tangled web, as well as a slippery slope. I have little good to say about GIVE... have read most parts of it because it is job-related for me. I have many issues of disagreement on this piece of legislation.
Posted by: Joyce | March 30, 2009 at 06:48 PM
Generations Invigorating Volunteerism and Education (GIVE)
More like:
Government
Implementing
Veiled
Evil
Posted by: maddypie2 | March 31, 2009 at 05:24 AM
You know, 50 years ago, it used to be the Church that Invigorated the Youth into Volunteerism and Education? Now, most church's are more about pandering to their congregation and allowing the people to dictate God's Will and Laws than they are to instructing them in the Way of the Lord. A small part of the blame in this is a loss of religious zeal... and I am not discounting the MANY who still do good through their churches.
However, we are replacing religion with government, which failed in Germany in the 30's, failed in Russia in the 80's, and is beginning to see glimmers of hope in China today...
The GIVE is a slippery slope, as was the 'Hitler Youth' in Germany... but you must remember, a 13 year old today is an 18 year old voter 5 years from now... and a 16 year old now, will be able to vote in the next election... Why do you think both Lowe's and Home Depot have free kid's projects? Branding. Brand socialism now, when kids are still learning their role and place in society, (or where to purchase nails). Now, who do you want education your children on the role of society, the 'Church', or the 'Social Progressives'.
Posted by: thebigshmoog | March 31, 2009 at 07:57 AM
Will they wear "Brown Shirts"?
Forbidding religious activities (Off the job) would be and is a violation of the "free exercise of religion" provision of the First Amendment to our Constitution.
Posted by: James Pawlak | March 31, 2009 at 08:18 AM
I have to say this
completely skeeves me out.
It is BEYOND frightening that the bill is written in such a way as to leave absolutely no possible manner in which a religious organization can receive one iota of help from this volunteer organization. Suppose there was terrible flooding or a hurricane or tornado? I am guessing that this brigade would show up to help out everyone else, but would shun any churches, synagogues or parochial schools in need of help.
Maddypie - brilliant retooling of the anagram. Much more descriptive of the true intent, if you ask me.
Schmoog - you have raised some excellent(and chilling)points.
Posted by: dana michelle | March 31, 2009 at 10:52 AM
no one here is talking about a civilian force as well funded and comparative in size to the military. I thought your country was in the middle of an economic crisis and you guys aren't worried at all by the cost of this idea ?
If its vollunteer how much would it actually cost, and how much larger would it have to be in terms of a cost structure in order to be close to your multi billion dollar military ?
I find myself with only a few possible logically consistent methods to judge this kind of incident.
1)Obama doesn't know what he is talking bout. - possible since he is just a politician, he may just like to say things like he is going to do them, with no idea of how to practically manifest his ideas
2)he is lying. - intentionally misleading people for whatever reason that benefits himself or his core supporters.
3)He is not in control. -he says what he wants but the actual people behind his curtain refuse to do things as he has asserted his administration will do.
4)he is right. - right is wrong up is down, helping people is harm, and hurting them is blessing them. This one scares me the most, because it invovles a true paradigm shift. Maybe just maybe the world and the people in power behind the scenes are enacting the path to the last days. Scripture tells of human beings becomming lovers of themselves, and right becoming wrong and vice versa. Given the the love and blank cheque Obama has been given by some of his supporters, that despite actions to the contrary they still ove him, maybe this is the end of the age of reason and a new age, and age of chaos will emerge. The rules as we know them change, and the world collectively readies first for the coming of the anti Christ (who isn't Obama) followed by the second coming of Ye'Shua, the Christ.
Hope I'm wrong on that last one, but never say never.
Posted by: LegioNofZioN | April 01, 2009 at 02:59 PM
The end of times is not drawing near. It is simply giving folks an incentive to volunteer if they didn't have one already. (Which, unfortunately many youth do not volunteer.) And because of the separation of Church and State, religious organizations do not count for the qualifying community service. It's not the end of days. Just breathe, relax and realize that our community will become better based on this bill.
Posted by: A | April 07, 2009 at 03:40 PM
As much as I hate this bill, it seems like what the prohibition section is stating is that the [forced] volunteer position is not to be used specifically for religious activities.
It states:
"An approved national service position under this subtitle may not be used for the following activities:"
One of the prohibited activities listed underneath, thankfully, is abortion services. Another is religious services. You can find the bill here:
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1388/text
It doesn't make me willing to accept this kind of government drafting, however, and my fear is that this prohibition could be easily taken out of context by enforcers.
If so, my friends, let Daniel be our example, who, knowing the law, worshipped the God of Jacob three times that day!
Posted by: Elizabeth | May 27, 2009 at 09:29 AM