Videoblogs

  • Videoblogs
    Check out the latest video's from James T. Harris and The National Conversation

Newsradio 620 WTMJ Podcast the James Harris Show

Twitter Updates

    follow me on Twitter

    « Junk In The Trunk | Main | Private! »

    November 21, 2008

    Comments

    Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

    Derek

    The congressional black caucus has little pull with the Obama admin, which is probably where the grumblings would start. When it was time to take a stand, the ones that actually did, they split endorsements on Hillary and Obama (with Edwards picking up some endorsements too)

    Now what? Are they going to cry that they might split endorsements on Obama again? Are these Clinton backers going to revoke Obama's blackness?

    Obama is not a white politician. His connection with blacks isn't dependent on how cozy he is with black leaders.

    Surely you aren't so removed from the black experience that you don't even know how identity politics plays out anymore?

    You're like Shelby Steele. The Content of our Character is an amazing book that has a lot of insights about being black in America. It helped me understand myself a lot better. But now the guy is a joke. He's a relic of the past that can't get over the idea that he's completely divorced from the way racial politics works in America in this day and age.

    You guys can talk about Black America's obsession with Obama through the racial lenses you guys have, but those lenses leaves you in the dark about the peripheral issues. You can't explain why Latino's voted for Obama, why educated people voted for Obama, why Upper class whites vote for Obama, why young people voted for obama, etc. etc.

    But you can oversimplify and generalize why Blacks did. You guys are like the anti-Jesse Jacksons, the anti-Al Sharptons, but still victims of the same trap. Neither of you are wise enough to see where America has passed you by in how you view race.

    james T.

    Derek,
    Lay off my man Shelby Steele! Everybody gets old!

    About the peripheral issues:

    "You can't explain why Latino's voted for Obama, why educated people voted for Obama, why Upper class whites vote for Obama, why young people voted for obama, etc. etc."

    I already addressed that!
    http://nationalconversation.typepad.com/the_national_conversation/2008/11/media-malpractice-how-obama-got-elected.html

    However Derek you show some keen insight on the Black Caucus issue...

    I'm going to have to keep my old ass eye on you.

    Derek

    You ARE the media.

    But that's another subject for another day.

    It's time for me to go into Obama worship mode:

    Obama's relationship with black leaders is interesting because black leaders have been just as much a part of the old political establishment as any other political group. To them, the game is supposed to be the game and that game is still payola. Fund my pet project and I am your ambassador to the black community.

    Whether we are talking black pastors, black congressmen or black activists, that's the way things are supposed to work.

    Obama ruffles feathers with black leadership (see jesse jackson slipups and sharpton's [non]endorsement) for the same reason he did it with the democratic establishment. He never had to pay any dues to the normal political bosses. His movement was virtually independent of any established political one. It was Hillary that played the game and got all the highpowered endorsements that came with it. I think that's part of the reason why she can't really be vanquished.

    Obama's a president that's more the product of the people than any I can name in a long time. But then again, I'm only 24.

    Greg

    there are generally not much educated african americans in america.Therefore to get an AA for the position will be almost impossible. Hillary is very qualified for the post and finally there are too many black in Barack Obama's cabinet already.

    Andrea

    Ignorance is bliss... so they say.

    Blackin Miami

    Derek,

    I could not have put it better. However, most of the black establishment politicians, who during the primary endorsed Hilary, or those who played it safe like Harold Ford Jr. are now looking to play the same old political game on Obama. It will not work and when he( President Obama) doesn't buy into the race poltics of old, people like James T will not see the merits in it, they will see it as yet another race baiting issue on which to bash Obama.

    Blackin Miami

    Greg,

    Where are you living? Your comment is so ignorant and blatantly racist. What on earth do you mean there are not many educated African Americans in America? You are a sick joke.

    Blackin Miami

    And by the way...Greg it is many, not much...people are countables. Talk about being educated!!!!

    Greg

    I didn't mean to offend anybody. I am just stating the obvious. I joined this post because, i like James t. He is really one of the few reasonable negroes. Blacks are not inferior to white in anyway, but they are lazier and seek outside help too much. This may be due to the fact that they were the only group that came into this country unwillingly and brutally. Africans (recent immigrants) behave much better. They are innovative, thrifthy, brilliant, cuulturally rich, intelligent and well-educated.

    I hope i have not offended anyone.

    Black in Mimai

    Greg,
    You are not stating the obvious. You are making a generalisation and that is wrong. African Americans as group are not lazy and rely on government assistance than any other groups. There is the large majority of us, hard working African Americans who go out there everyday and work for what we want. There is also a significant number among us who are educated and are willing to do for ourselves and our generation.
    Have you ever thought that this country was built in part by the blood sweat and tears of people who today are marginalised by those who enslaved them. Do you think it is easy to over come hundreds of years of oppresssion and enslavement to attain what we have today? But yet the majority of us do not look back neither do we sit and wait for government handouts. You need to do your own research and not perpetrate the media stereotypes or rely on right wing propoganda that people like James T and the other right wing nuts like to spew out.
    Has it ever occurred to you that Blacks have only in the last forty years been afforded the most basic of rights as citizens. Do you thnk years of mistreatment and institutionlaized racism can be overcomed in fifty years? Blacks have fought and died for this country, have given of themselves to build the great wealth and cities of the South and the North and you sat here on your high horse and have the nerve to call us lazy.
    I don't think you like James T because he is so reasonable, because he is not. You like him because he continues to degrade himslef and decent, hard working, honest, law abiding blacks and whites alike who do not shrae his ideology. You people have some nerves man...

    Greg

    black in miami,
    Why are continental African so radically different in their world view from African americans?

    Black in Mimai

    Greg,
    Can you school me as to what is Continental Africa's world view? The issue here is that you claim that African Americans are lazy, uneducated and rely lagely in part on government assistance. My response is that is a generalisation. There is a large portion of white America in dire poverty, on welfare and are very uneducated. Would you use them as a metaphor for White America? I don't think so. Why then would you heap all African americans in such category as you described above?

    The difference between African on the continent and African in the Diasporo and in particularly the US can be looked at through many different lens.
    For one Africans on the continent, with the exception of South Africa, have not been as brutally enslaved and oppressed as Africans in America. Hence the mistrust of and the apathy to politicans an governance in the black community.

    When compared to Africans on the continent African American are far more successful materially than are Aficans on the continent. The resources that are available to them are boundless, oil in Nigeria, diamonds and other precious metals on the West coast and South Africa, hydro power in Central Africa and some of the best natural scenery in the world. All these should have been exploited to the beneifit of their population, but how have they used it? Most of these countries in Africa have been embroiled in civil war and conflicts that have no end. Not only that, but they have had years of corrupt politicians who instead of using the wealth and resources to better the population they continue to plunder the countries and amass great wealth for themselves while maintaining lavish, opulent homes in Europe and super wealth in offshore and in European banks.

    You would be hard pressed to identify one African nation that in the last 50 years, have not been caught up in some internal or border dispute. Rwanda, Mozambique, Somalia, Ethiopia, Kenya, The Sudan, Nigeria, and countless others. Among the more stable countries in Africa are Botswana, Ghana and probably Namibia.

    When African Immigrants come to the Diasporo, they more often than not are seeking asylum from the terror and oppression they face in their homeland. They are very humble, hardworking and generally smart people. No doubt very cultured and often very thrifty...Those my friend are the characteristics of the large majority of immigrants, whether they are from Africa, the Indian sub-continent or Eastern Europe.

    Despite brief periods of colonisation Africans on the continent have had the previlige of their own governance for a long time. I do not see how that has benefited them seriously. My question is what exactly are their world view? I am of African descent and have no axe to grind with anyone in general. I am just curious as to how convenient it is to put people into categories and place labels on them when it makes one look better.
    Another point is, for first generation immigrant, the experience is almost always different. As immigrant groups most new African migrants seek to identify with the mainstream culture of the country to which they migrate. Check back 20 years and see their offsprings. They seek identification with those that are physically and culturally like them. If the second and third generation Africans, now African Americans, become lazy and improvident as you call them, the fualt my friend is not theirs, but lie squarely at the feet of this great country.

    LegioNofZioN

    I agree with the general thrust of your argument Black in Miami, but I disagree with the summation of your argument. My father immigrated to Canada from the West Indies in the early 70's. As I see it, the individuals have to bear responsibility for their lack of success, although that responsibility is shared with the culture of North America, as opposed to the countries alone. Living in Canada I see the vast similarities between Americans and Canadians, the differences are so few and far between, that we share a culture. We influence you, you influence us, but the stories of blacks who have been a part of our mosaic for generations often pales in comparison to immigrant blacks from the west indies, south america and africa.

    plain and simple immigrants and their first kids work harder than native born north americans regardless of race or gender. Our problem is not valuing the hard work and sacrifice it takes to succeed. That is the millstone around all of our necks.

    We should be looking at each other through the lense of character as opposed to ethnic and cultural categories we fit into in varying degrees.

    Take myself for example. My father could pass for white, and my mother is white (but also Vincentian). I and my siblings compose the "white" side of a majority black family. I grew up in a section of Toronto with a large West Indian population, so growing up I was always around other west indians (Jamaicans, Trinis, Bajans etc). I have always been in between worlds in a sense because I certainly don't look black yet my social groups tended to be black and Indian West Indians. As a result I reject a lot of flack I have gotten from whites who think I talk and act too black, and from blacks who think I'm some white kid trying to be down. Neither, "side" if you will, rarely takes the time to judge me based on the me they see hear and get to know as opposed to quick judgements without true understanding.

    I value my Vincentian heritage, but it does not rule me nor define me on its own.

    It is within each of us to define ourselves and how we deal with others, and the image we project onto others. It is also unto us that the choice to make snap judgements or gain insight and understanding before making judgements lies.

    so if North American culture lacks the moral and cultural basis for further generations to succeed and prosper, it is every bit our own fault as it is the general culture, because each of us contributes to it on the daily. We have to change it or the responsibility for our future generations failures will forever rest with us.

    LeGioN
    Nic

    Greg

    African continent may be experiencing some socio-economic upheavals at the moment, but there are plenty of good news: from Lagos being the one of the fastest growing cities economically to Angola being one of the fast growing economies in the developing world.Africans are really trying. for African americans inspite of vast economic resources are their disposal, they have been unable to do much with it. Every middle class black dream of living along side white for no just reason. African americans do not take initiative. they are have managed to create a vast grievous-industry, so that they can be excused for their failure. Continental blacks make up just 13% of Us black population yet they make up whooping 26% of black populations in Ivy leagues. Behavior-wise they are fun to be with. they are not threatening, angry, and gangsta. Out-of-wedlock births are a rarity. sometimes, it is hard to believe that African American and continental Africans are one race.

    Blackin Miami

    Legion,

    I totally agree with you that the individual has the responsibility to himself first and therefore his ultimate destination in life should rest largely on his shoulders. I am however, a bit disturbed at the kind of glaring generalisations that we tend to sometimes make when we try to categories people.
    It is also immportant to note that the culture and sociology have a lot to do with they way people percieve themselves in relation to others.
    Like you, I am a product of hardwworking and ambitious Caribbean parents. I have lived most of my life in mixed neighborhoods and have seen the same treatment you described above. One of the assumptions we make as migrants here is that African Americans are by and large lazy, inept and culturally deprived people. We listen to our grandparents, and some of our parents who still hold some bias that we are somehow different from African americans. That As people from the English Speaking Caribbean we are superior because we speak a closer dialect of the Queens English. We, of course are success driven people and that is based in part on the fact that as a group we have had greater autonomy over ourseleves much sooner than African Americans have themselevs. Our parents and and in some cares their parents have grown up seeing people like themselves as models of success. We were never made to feel that there was anything that we could not in anyway attain, if we set our minds to it. That experience Legion, is in total contrats to that of African Americans.
    You know the history of discrimination in this country so I need not run down the myriad of insults these folks have endured, even up until the 1960's when most Caribbean people were already on the way to self government. I am in no way excusing laziness and the lack of desire to be successful, which is to me and probabyly you, an unexplained phenomenon. What I am saying is that if your argument about the individual responsibility to self should hold true, then making such generalisations about all African Americans, should not be the conclusion.
    I have several friends who are African Americans, folks that are sucessful, with graduate degrees, raising families and are productive, worthwhile contributing citizens to their communities and their society at large.
    As a migrant group we have benefited greatly from our parents culture and social upbringing. They impact us positively for the most part and we laud that. The negative influence of the African American experience will take sometime to dissipate. Lets not heap everyone in the same basket.

    Blackin Miami

    Greg,

    It is welcoming to see you point out the succeses of portions of Africa. You have in no way disputed my argument that Africans have at their disposal more resources than African Americans will ever dream to have. You have also not addressed the wanton and selfish abuse of the said resources and power that most of your African leaders hold. As we speak Zimbabwe is embroiled in one of the worst abuse of democracy in modern history.
    Like I said, pointing fingers and making these false generalisations do us no good. There is a large number of African Americans in very prominent positions in this country. Many of them have suceeded in business and the arts and sports. These are accopmplishments that you fail to acknowledge. It is just plain wrong for you to say that there are not enough educated African Americans to hold office.
    Proportionally and based upon the history of African Americans in this country, African Americans are well represented. There have been and even currently a black governor of a big state. Several black State representatives, Congress persons, men and women, and big city mayors who are black. Not to mention the number of black folks in Academia and the and the Sciences.
    While it is conveneient to point out the negatives, you are not making a good argument by ignoring these facts and examples of success.
    There are other success stories in Africa, Sudan , despite the issue in Darfur continues to flourish and Khartoum is one of the Third world's fastest growing cities. Namibia has a decent GDP and Botswana has a very high literacy rate. We should acknowledge all of that, and we should also look at these stories of success in relation to the rest of the Continent,
    And what exactly do you mean by African Americans want to live alongside whites with no just reason? The last time I check this was a free country and evryone aspires to attain the American Dream. A goood job, education, nice family and a house in the sub-urbs. What is so wrong with that? why should African Americans be different from others who desire the same.
    The reason Africans Americans are angry and threathing according to you, is because we have for a long time have no reason to trust the powers that be, the same powers, who just under fifty years ago felt that we were inferior and could not attend the same schools as White Americans. The same authorities who hosed down and use police dogs agianst them, bombed our churches and killed our children who were only seeking the same rights as every other citizen in this country. That, my friend, is why we appear angry. As for threatheing, I guess you are watching too much TV. The white kids who dress up in black and do their Gothic shit is not threating to you are they? The white supremacist who threaten and intimidate others who do not look like them are not threateing are they? Now you are saying that every African American who walks the the earth is gangsta and threatening.
    What industry have we created to explain our failure? You arguments lack substance, is based on your very myopic view of others( African Americans) and borders on being racist. You are comfortable with Africans from the continent because like the other good negroes you know, they will not dare to challenge your misconceptions. Partly because it elevates them above African Americans and in part because it helps to validate your opinion of self.
    If you are into reading, I suggest you read Richard Wright's "Native Son".

    Blackin Miami

    And Greg,

    I still want to know what is the "World View" of Continental Africans and how that differs from African Americans.

    Will

    The sad thing about this post is that James T didn't even denounce the offensive and ignorand comments made by greg. Sadly I think James shares greg's views about the African-American race. That would explain his refusal to be called African-American and his total disdain for the first African-American President. Self hate will always be present in our culture but I'm inspired because the Election of Obama means the Country are putting old sterotypes and racism to rest and uniting as a people not based on skin color.

    Blackin Miami

    Will,

    I tend to think that James T is grappling with some serious issues of inferiority , hence the deep rooted self hate manifested in his comments and is sometimes vociferous support of commments like Greg's. But, like You, I am inspired that this country has outdone itself and has so moved beyond the boundaries of race. I know people like Greg and James T are in the minority and that is some solace. If being conservative means that I have to be anything like like James T, divisive, ignonorant, diabolic, self hating and utterly despicable, then I will die a bleeding liberal.

    Will

    @ Black in Miami, I couldn't agree with you more. There is definently more to the hate and venom this man has for Pres. Obama(gosh I enjoy writting that;-)) There is a sense of jealousy or envy that I pick up from James and it's so sad to see, it's that crab in a barrell mentality that some black people have and I guess it will always be present in our culture. Just about every blog James has put out since the election has been focused on bashing Obama, close to the point of obssesion. However, I take comfort knowing that we are on the right track to getting our country back headed in the right direction. I know people who were die hard republicans that couldn't help but become teary eyed when they saw how estatic and united our great country was on election night, there were people of all races and ages in those crowds celebrating together. There are clips on you tube that document that great night and showed the celebrations not just in the U.S. but around the World. I would urge anyone who hasn't seen it to check it out, it's powerful stuff. So BIM it's nice to know that people like james and his cronies here that support his hateful and vicious attacks on our next President are few in numbers. The whole World is drinking the Obama koolaid together and it taste great;-)!! It taste like HOPE&UNITY!!

    LegioNofZioN

    to Black in Miami,
    thanks and I agree that lumping people into groups is counter productive and serves no altruistic purpuose. I tend to agree that blacks in America get lumped together too often, and when this happens the most negative aspects are highlighted. That said it has been American blacks to have helped to inculcate this view externally. For all of James' criticism of Obama, much of which I agree with, he has been taken out the back shed enough times and attacked by other American blacks for betrayal. If their is no American black monolith why do American blacks often act as if there is or should be ? To the white folks reading these exchanges, like Greg, that kind of behaviour reinforces the stereotype of the black american monolith (which is neither true nor healthy). Black Americans aren't especially lazy, but modern American culture in general is bad for blacks.

    To Greg,
    you are free to state your opinion, but I think you need some comprehensive info to better share in this exchange.

    To will,
    alright I'm going to try to handle this delicately, I don't know if you watch DL on CNN, but last night he was talking with some Kenyans about Barack and they put him in the same place James was put when he actually went to Africa.
    To blacks throughout Africa, black Americans are simply black americans. a 10 to 17th generation black American has more involved and in stake with America than more recent immigrant whites do and more in common with America than Africa. in fact there are white africans throughout the continent with a deeper connection to Africa than the blacks who were enslaved and sent to the West Indies and the Americas. The term African American is used by Americans and sheepish white folks in Europe, not by many blacks within Africa. in short the terms only legitimacy is within the borders of America.

    All that said I am glad you are happy for Obama. I'm glad it does something for you. Just don't hate when it doesn't mean anything to others. I think Obama will do a great job after he betrays the very far left liberals who supported him and confronts the reality of performing the job and the high expectations set out before him. I think Obama is a very capable man, who played the game brilliantly to win it. I begrudge the man nothing.

    All in all I would certainly prefer a conservative to lead your country, especially a principled moral person. Preferrably a Christian. If he or she was West Indian then I might just have to move and help the person out.

    And to close my topic out, the "hate" Will quoted is an apparition from his own mind. I have seen way more unjustified hate against GW Bush following his win than I have seen against Obama. For consistancy's sake I will assume he meant unreasonable hate. It's plain to see the far left liberals haven't seen much from him so far, but their outspoken slams against president elect Obama by the far left are reasonable given that he has yet to signal pleasing them with his choices. Or are the far left just racists ?

    Blackin Miami

    Legion,
    we seem to be understanding each other and I deinitely enjoy sharing with people who are informed and reasonable. That said, I do think that James' obsession with doom and gloom for an Obama administration is healthy or reasonable. I like, Will, I am excited by an Obama's victory and sincerely hope he will have a prosperous and well run adminstration. I am also very hopeful that this will be the case. As black people in America we are excited because for too long blacks have not been given the oportunity to do much and this signals, even if symbolic, a new era in American politics.
    As a liberal I find it very offensive that the christian right are so critical of an Obama adminstration; that they would cite his lack of christian moral, social values and conservatives fiscal policies as bases for their criticism. get me right here, leaders are suppose to be criticised and nobody, not me at least feel that Obama is impervious. But they go about this despite the fact that they voted for a Christian right wing President, who ruled not by mandates, but by decree from his fellow right wings. Who unilaterally invaded a soveriegn nation, he who has appointed some of the most incompetent leaders in modern American history. He who has fostered the most fiscal irresponsibility this nation has seen since the great depression and he who has single handedly manage to make America one of the most hated nation today. That I think is share hypocrisy because there is nothing Christian about killing over 30,000 innocent Iragis, nothing christian about sending over 4000 young American men and women to their death in a war of blame. In fact, giving a woman the right to choose is more in line with christianity.
    As a christian I want to share my love of christ and the moral value I find in the christian faith with others. I do not think however, that religion has any place in the governance of this country. Notice the most backward nations on earth are the ones who govern with religious zeal. The people should have the right to worhsip, whomever and however they choose. Government should not dictate, or use the tenets of any particular faith to rule.

    LegioNofZioN

    Black in Miami, Good convo so far, lets keep it going.

    Religion seems to be where we differ most. So lets expand. St Vincent is a Christian nation. It has had both white and black leaders. We only gained independance from the UK in 1981, so we are newer than some of our brother and sister islands. We have no strip clubs, even one murder in a year is scandal, abortion is not legal, yet we seem to do well. That is a land ruled not by people claiming to be Christians, but people who though fallible make sincere effort to follow the example of Christ. Corruption exists, to be sure, but not at the level you experience and see in the USA or we see in Canada. As for the criticism of Obama on religious grounds, those to me, are the most valid. Based on the convictions of a bible believing Christian every life is of value to the lord our God. Obama's positions on abortion, and childrens rights by extension is spotty at best. Its true that GW did not live up to his image as a Christian, or evangelical during his time in the white house. Fiscal irresponsibility and the bailout, along with the Iraq war have sullied what could have been an otherwise good record. Bush will have to answer to HIS creator most asuredly for his actions.

    But I do have to call you out on saying "Giving a womn the right to choose is more in line with Christianity"

    If Christ followed the fathers will. and the father commanded his people to not kill, how would the father's son endorse the killing of a child ? an innocent one at that. there is a serious leap of logic required to even posit such an absurd assumption. Jesus was not free to do as he wished, he had to fulfill HIS Father's will. that was his burden. Our burden is that we are sinners, and choice is all of ours. Women may choose to abort their children, and they will be judged accordingly. I wouldn't criminalize abortion, it should remain an option for those who don't value life as we do. But society should not normalize nor endorse abortion, because legalized killing is still killing. it is the extinction of one unique life, removed out of the natural order before its time. I don't think enough people on the left or right THINK about the religion they claim fealty towards. Maybe this means we shouldn't have rulers who have faith. Maybe it means we need rulers who have faith. I don't have the answers, but from where I sit, I'll err with the side of flawed people who try to live up to our impossible standard over leaders who reject the standard and seek to lower it for all. that is not progress, it is regress.

    Blackin Miami

    Legion,

    The issue of Abortion is at best very subjective, both to christians and non-christians alike. The matter of science does allow for more grey areas than you or I would like to admit. On the one hand as christians, we want to benefit from the great success of modern science, and on the other we revile those successes (or as you might put it drawbacks)that seem to provoke our conscience most.
    Abortion to me is a very personal matter and those who support a woman's right to choose should not be villified. The science of when life begins is at best in contradiction to what the Christian church teaches. I don't think even among ourselves as christian there is any concensus. If we are to truly follow the examples of Christ we should let the day of Harvest be our reckoning.
    There are a lot of factors to be considered when discussing the issue of Abortion. The woman's health, the viability of the unborn, the economic and social environment to which such a child maybe borught into this world. I for one am still conflicted on whether abortion is justified on grounds of the latter. But these are questions that must be carefully pondereed when such questions of life and death are in debate.

    Another issue we must also examine is that of the death penalty. Most of the research done to determine the success of the death penalty as a detterent to crime have shown that it does very little to curb deviance in our society. The death penalty, despite these results, is one of the most touted form of punishment by conservatives in America. Like abortion, it is legalized killing. Why then is the Christian Right so determined to rid the world of these evil monsters; these same monsters who acording to them cannot be rehabilitated. Who are we to determine who can and cannot be rehabilitated? Abortion maybe a form of legalized killing, depending on which of the side of the debate you are on( modern science vs chistiany), but how do we explain the death penalty?

    I may appear to some as someone who has no respect for life but that couldln't be further from the truth. I am just not very comfortable with the Christian Conservative ways of convenient truths. Kill when its convenient but do not abort. Seek out and destroy those who do not believe in our way of life and bomb every country who does not agree with our imperialistic foriegn policies. Sell capitalism as the premier form of economic principle to the rest of the world but borrow billions form Communist China. Do not harm dogs and imprison those who use these innocent animals for their entertainment but go out and hunt and kil all the moose and deer in Alaska. Encourage illegal immigration by eastern Europeans and wealthy South East Asian nationals through the open Canadian bordrers but build a wall to keep out illiterate and dark skinned Mexiacns. Then we placate ourselves by using the bible as our guide. There are just too many inconsistencies and I prefer well reasoned arguments to the kind of absolutes being thrown out.
    Christianity should be a way of life, it should permeate every aspect of our lives, not be used as tool of convenience.

    LegioNofZioN

    I hear you Black in Miami, and for the most part we still agree. At least as far as the death penalty is considered. I am no fan of the death penalty, mostly because it is rarely used to eliminate that which society cannot abide and too many innocent people have died. That a handicapped disturbed person could be put to death and multiple incident rapists and kiddie diddlers survive is beyond me. Your system and ours are both screwed up in the sense of making people pay for their choices when their choices cause irreperable harm to another. I would have no problem with the death penalty for violent offenders as long as their guilt is proven factually, and that they are at risk to do so in the future. My country abandoned the death penalty and yours still has it in many states although not all of them.

    however I must call you out on the abortion issue, mostly because as much as I personally sympathize with women who have had to make that choice, the facts have to be stated and agreed upon.

    First, life does begin at conception in a scientific sense. It is the splitting and multiplication of cells that first indicates successful fertilization, and the "genesis", if you will, of the fetus. Legally in America the period in which the fetus is considered a person and therefore guaranteed protection under your constitution (the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness) is in question, but to a scientist the point where life begins, clinically, is the successful fertilization of the egg. this holds true accross species. So in effect the argument is legal and not scientific.

    While as a member of society I recognize my beliefs and convictions should not impact another, when it comes to a life being ended, their is no equivocation that can occur. If life is holy, especially innocent life, then I must do what I can to offer the option of life to the mother. unfortunately many simply deride abortion without trying to provide alternatives and that I something I think my Christian brethren and sistren miss in your country. the reason I wouldn't outlaw abortion is simply because there can be legitimate issues wherein the mothers health is in danger that I believe the choice must only be made by the parents in question. they will answer for their decision and as such should have no pressure externally.

    as for the hypocrisy of decrying abortion yet supporting dealth penalty, I agree, yet as much as some conservatives in your country have such a position, how do people on the left ever think they hold a position lacking hypocrisy when they support the termination of innocent life, yet oppose the killing of a wretched life that has brought horror and pain to so many around him or her ? I can think of at least 3 kiddy diddlers who completed their sentance in Canada and were released despite still being a threat to the public! How can one rape little boys or girls and be allowed to contribute to society ? how can one violate so many and still have a place amongst the rest of us ? That to me is a very troubling question.

    It seems to me your problem, the congnative disconect is not about Christianity but the people in your country who practise it and who like all of us fail to satisy the Lord through our weakness. Black in Miami I don't think you disrespect life, just that you have a differing perspective. I disagree with a decent amount but you make a reasoned argument.

    In Christianity there are no convenient truths, just the Truth. We who follow the way are imperfect and we will fail in our attempt to emulate the path to redemption. Do not let the lack of consistancy of the followers influence your opinion of the Truth, none are without sin and none are perfect.

    Capitalism is not the system I think that exeplifies anything taught by Christ, but just as we cannot force everyone to believe in HIM, so too must we realise that a system of equal sharing can only work amongst homogenous groups, or at least Christian groups (where diversity is accepted as part of doctrine). As such capitalism allows for humanity's greed to be sated through personal sacrifice and hard work. Far from perfect but it addresses a major element of humanity. "Greed, whats in it for me ?"

    Hunting is viable and I think morally neutral so long as it is to feed oneself and/or family. As for immigration,dude what were you thinking ? south asians are darker than mexicans, and south east asians prefer us up here. Try visiting Vancouver. Your south east asian population is miniscule despite your size.

    To conclude, I agree with your closing statement, Christianity is a way of life too many followers (stateside and elsewhere) use conveniently until it contradicts their personal desires, of this I am guilty.

    Good convo, cheers!

    The comments to this entry are closed.

    My Photo

    More on James T. Harris

    UPCOMING APPEARANCES

    Book James Harris to speak at your event

    September 2011

    Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
            1 2 3
    4 5 6 7 8 9 10
    11 12 13 14 15 16 17
    18 19 20 21 22 23 24
    25 26 27 28 29 30