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September 29, 2010

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Chris

look at you people.. trying to deny someone's faith because you don't like his politics.. the very same faith that you all wish to grow and "propagate" throughout the world.. I thought I would never post here again after being silenced so ceremoniously, but this just sickens me. Does this policy of seclusion do absolutely anything for your interests? What do you stand to gain by ousting Barack Obama from the Christian faith?

You can't even agree on what is Christian and what is not, how do you intend to prove Barack Obama is fraudulently practicing Christianity?

...that's what I'd like to know, and do not respond to my post if you bring anything other than the answer to that question, you will not elicit a response with slurs and barbs.

NSangoma

~
I suggest that everyone read Flavius Josephus for them Punk-Gawd-Damn-selves:
http://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks%3A1&tbo=1&q=Flavius+Josephus&btnG=Search+Books

Read Negroe, read; and if you can't run, read anyway.
`

LegioNofZioN

NSangoma are you for real ? you are like a running joke that in and of itself, is not very funny, but the frequency of your presence just make for comedy.

Thanks for not answering or even dignifying my verbal assault, I guess its easier to just pretend you never read it and you haven't been placed in the corner with a dunce cap. Continue on, I like comedy.


Chris I know some folks in here have been hard, but if anyone can judge what makes a Christian a Christian, it must certainly be a Christian. Now as I said I take Obama at his word, unlike some others here, but in looking at his actions, they are not the actions of a follower and convicted believer in the lord. He is like a mormon, his faith doesn't bother me, whatever it is, and he may call himself a Christian, but it is not in the vein of christianity I belong to, and the reason I belong to it, is because I am convinced it is the only way. I think of Obama like millions of other believers worldwide who attempt to pick and choose which aspects of Christianity to adopt, people who determine what in the bibile is worth believing and follwoing. Acording to the bible you are not supposed to do that, as such, believers though they be, obedient to the Word they be not.

Andrea A.

if I may... Matthew 7:15-20

A Tree and Its Fruit
15"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

17"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.

18"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

19" Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

20"So then, you will know them by their fruits.

NSangoma

~
Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
Judge not, that ye be not judged
bible.cc/matthew/7-1.htm

Luke 6:37
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged.
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged:
condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned:
forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
bible.cc/luke/6-37.htm
`

Maddypie

A commie pig who hates America must always be judged.

After all Jesus wants to hate and despise evil.

Andrea A.

I see you are fond of Matthew as well. :) However, where did you see my judgement? I merely pointed out something to help Chris with his question. I'll save judgement for the Big Guy. :) In the meantime, I will continue praying for my country and the leadership of it, but not being so ignorant as to have the wool pulled over my eyes.

James T.

You forgot vs. 2 "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

Many people have ripped Matt 7:1 out of context. Jesus warns us not to assume God's prerogative to condemn the guilty; he is not warning us not to discern truth from error (see 7:15-23).

False prophet... Hummmm, good one Andrea A.

Further, Jesus does not oppose people offering correction, only offering correction in the wrong spirit (v. 5; compare 18:15-17; Gal 6:1-5). If Ms. Anal Orifice was on point, she could accuse us of having a "wrong spirit".

But she is not on point she is just petulant.

NSangoma = divisiveness.

PC

Just to clarify a bit. The existence of Jesus on earth has historically been proven, even in Islam. Yes, even Muslims acknowledge he lived. The disagreement among various religions is whether or not he was God incarnate on earth. None of us are debating what does/does not make someone a Christian. The debate and issue is that our President's profession of faith has very suspect timing. Yes, the Bible teaches peace, turning the other cheek & not passing judgement. However, it also teaches us to have discernment. I am being discerning & concerned about a sheep in wolf's clothing. Regardless I will pray for him.

Chris

Many people have said whatever they want to say about what Matthew 7 means, but I guarantee not a soul that posts here can offer an interpretation that is accepted by all who read the bible. Priests have used Matt 7 to excuse their horrendous behavior, Kings have used Matt 7 for the same heinous ends. I ask for proof of Obama's infidelity and you give me passages from the bible. The only people prophesying are you, I don't think calling Barack Obama a "false prophet" has any relevance to the issue at hand, nor does it contain any shred of common sense to those who are not blinded by their own bubble of faith. For that matter this whooole blogpost is a contradiction to the very Matthew 7 you use to support your arguments. Ironically I'd like to use Matthew 7 to end my post, so be it.

3- And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4- Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5- Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

5- Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

James T.

Oh my! Look who's back and casting stones!!!!

Hey Chris, why are you using the King James Version? Does it sound more holy to you?

"I don't think calling Barack Obama a "false prophet" has any relevance to the issue at hand, nor does it contain any shred of common sense to those who are not blinded by their own bubble of faith..."

In other words you voted for the Chocolate Jesus and are still drinking the Kool Aid...

That sickens me Chris.

Repent.

James T.

Maddypie,
Your response to Legion's brilliantly righteous post was classic.

Still laughing...

Andrea A.

Chris, even though I don't feel I (or anyone else here for that matter) have to "prove" anything to you, I brought to you where I get my info from, as you asked. Considering we are discussing Obama's Christianity(or lack thereof), of course I would bring to you the Bible. I wasn't so much as calling Barack a false prophet (although to ME it totally has a ring of truth to it), as much as I was focused on "you will know them by their fruits". That speaks volumes to me and volumes on how that man has run our country and made his choices thus far and everything to do with him professing his faith in Christ. If it does not to you, I guess as your sister in Christ I will pray for you as I do for Obama.

Joyce

Great many accusations here and Bible interpretations... wasn't this posting's focus on bho choosing to use religion at this time?

After 76 Sundays (19 months)... he managed to march the family to church. And then chooses to espouse his faith in between the stump speeches. He may be what he believes to be a Christian... I don't know. Though I know of few Christians who believe in collective salvation... bho has said he does on numerous occasions.

Most Christians believe in individual salvation... confession of personal sins to their God. And the only way to salvation is through belief in Jesus Christ.

Chris

I'm not casting stones James, I'm catching stones being cast. While you might like to think that you can "say whatever you want" here to make the undignified results of your spiritual analysis make more sense, I'm here to let you know you have gone too far. You can bash Barack Obama's politics all you want, every President has been the benefactor of scrutiny; and I don't even care much for his politics, he definitely has a huge bark with almost no bite, not my kind of guy... but this vicious attack on his spiritual self is reminiscent of inquisition/witch burning. I asked you to prove Barack Obama is a "fraudulent Christian" because you can't. You can only judge him on his words and his actions, his spirituality is not relevant here, while I understand you may think otherwise, I would like to remind you that religious freedom is still very important to almost all Americans, and at the core of what separates us from countries and groups of people who foster oppression and persecution through Theocracy.

Isn't that what we are really fighting in the middle east? Radical Islam???

Since you luuuuuv quoting the bible James, I got some more Matthew for ya. :*

38 - Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

39 - But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

40 - And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

41 - And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

42 - Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43 - Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 - But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 - That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 - For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 - And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 - Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven


What's wrong James, King James too hard for you? I personally think if you can't figure out King James yourself, you should go learn some history.

LegioNofZioN

NSangoma good quotes, but the message is not that you may not judge, but just be damned sure you aren't a hypocrit cause you will be judged as you judged others. Am I attempting to say how righteous I am, no. I am in many ways the example of what not to be in your day to day life as a Christian, and what makes it worse is that I know better. People like myself will be held to the highest account before the Lord, I know this, and I fear this. but speaking the truth, the Word of God, is not in any way a judgement, its simply repeating what He wants of us. I will take your condemnation, and I will take your judgement because in the end run it means little. If I don't have my act together by the time I die, I will have a lot more to worry about than the thoughts of another person as broken and twisted as I am.

James T.

"I'm here to let you know you have gone too far."

Chris, are you a Christian? I'm just asking...

If someone like Legion or Cookers or Andrea says that to me (and they have in the past) I would give pause because I can tell by their words that they are serious.

Are you serious Chris? Your last misuse of scripture was baseless.

Joyce asked,"wasn't this posting's focus on Obama choosing to use religion at this time?"

As the author of the post I I can tell you, yep it sure was and the fact that Obama is trying to walk like a duck and talk like a duck but...

Liberals are fond of trying to use conservatives own traditions against them.

If this is your plan you need to try harder. Otherwise you will find me thinking like Paul who said in Galatians 5:12:

"I wish that those who are upsetting you would castrate themselves!"

That's the International Standard Version Chris...

(©2008)

Andrea A.

LMBO!!!! Oh my!!!! I haven't laughed like that in a while! my oh my that was FUNNY!!!!! "castrate themselves!"!!!! heeeheeeeeeeheee ....thanks James! I gotta remember that one! LOL oh man... that was good. my cheeks hurt! : )

Legion... you are a good, true, humble disciple. His Grace is very evident in your writing and thoughts. Continue fighting the good fight as only you do! ;-)

Cookers

Chris, your last post was all over the place and lacking in coherence.

I hope we can agree that our religious beliefs should inform and affect our behavior. If they do not, I would not really consider them beliefs. They would just be nice thoughts.

You stated, "You can only judge him on his words and his actions, his spirituality is not relevant here,". And that is exactly what we are doing.

If we agree his religion should affect his behavior, then we can examine his behavior to see how the two match up. He has rarely attended church since he was sworn in. He is supportive of abortion on demand. He has stated he believes in a collective salvation as Joyce mentioned rather than the 2000 year old orthodox belief of individual salvation that almost all branches of Christianity espouse. And the timing of all of this Christianity talk is just too suspicious.

That may be a very cynical attitude to have about his faith but he has earned that level of scrutiny based on the high level of politcs that play into everything else BHO has done.

No one has stated that BHO is not entitled to believe what he wants to believe. Are you trying to quell our right to free speech in being critical of BHO? That's in the constitution too, you know.

If he truly is a Christian, we are simply applying scripture that states that judgement begins in the house of the Lord.

And equating our verbal judgement to witch burning? Dude. Come on.

James T.

Cookers... Are you my daddy?
:-)

Chris

We can agree that if you practice a "religion" you are most certainly expecetd to let the tomes of said religion quell over into your social actions. I, however, don't agree that whatever you have faith in has any place in a public forum. I don't present my faith any further than my own heart. You know that whole "body is a temple" thing. If you think it is responsible of you to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ in your everyday personal and social life, I would also agree with you, however I still feel that it is erroneous to be confident in what you think "Jesus would do", because I don't think most Christians actually agree 100% on what Jesus would do.

" He has rarely attended church since he was sworn in."

So its how many times you attend church and not what love and virtue you bestow upon your family, friends, and in his case the United States of America? I happen to think Obama cares alot about the country, but unfortunately has no means or idea make it better.

"He is supportive of abortion on demand."

...or maybe he is one of those Christians who see a far greater horror, as in teenage girls getting busy with a coat hanger or having horses stomp their bellies (don't make me pull out the microfilm for this), in abortion being illegal.

"He has stated he believes in a collective salvation as Joyce mentioned rather than the 2000 year old orthodox belief of individual salvation that almost all branches of Christianity espouse."

Maybe he sees the lack of accountability that "individual salvation" implies even in its text. I agree that this may be in direct conflict with most of Christianity but do you think Obama is implying that individual salvation is not a core belief of Christianity? Is he disputing anything?

"That may be a very cynical attitude to have about his faith but he has earned that level of scrutiny based on the high level of politcs that play into everything else BHO has done."

Cynical indeed, and to the point, vindictive. I wonder what he could possibly do to earn your approval? I doubt there is anything, though if his name was John McCain, and his actions identical, I have a hard time believing you would have the same opinion. Do you understand why I have a hard time believing that? If not then I'll refer you to your next quote:

"If he truly is a Christian, we are simply applying scripture that states that judgement begins in the house of the Lord."

No you're not, you showed yourself in the first line "If he truly is a Christian" you dumbass. You are calling him a fake Christian, plain as day for everyone to see. Fraudulent was the word I believe was used. It is witch burning, for one reason only... to get your guy in next time. You are all exposed for what you are, tools of the Republican trade. Be that as it may, I think its a mistake, and very un-Christlike if I might add.

Joyce

"You are all exposed for what you are, tools of the Republican trade."

Chris... how on earth do you equate any of the previous comments by Cookers, Andrea, Legion, myself and others to any political party?

bho's buffet-style Christianity, similar to "cafeteria Catholic" is just that... pulled out when necessary and selective.

Chris

you know, Joyce, if you can't find the fault in establishing parameters by which you excercise your franchise then I don't have anything to say to you. You are obviously willing to give your franchise away to an ideal rather making it a question of the virtue of the individual, which Washington is sadly lacking.

Also, I would point out that you are quick to judge Obama for his apparent lack of dedication to his faith. A little too quick considering you are not there to see him tuck his little girls into bed at night. You don't know if he says the soul to keep prayer or otherwise. What tidbits of Barack Obamas life you see on TV are hardly the basis to judge the sanctity of his own faith. Plus there are dozens of Cafeteria catholics in the Republican party, if all the criteria for being such is "pulled out when necessary and selective".

Joyce

You are so correct chris...I do not see the father tucking his girls in. What I have seen is the lack of reinforcing the Christian faith in his girls through his church attendance.

That is his choice... I care not how he chooses to live.

James T.

"I don't present my faith any further than my own heart. You know that whole 'body is a temple' thing."

Chris, read Jeremiah 17:9 King James Version. The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

I'll take your answer and the fact that your last post was so vapid, as a no... You don't know him.

Jimmy Carter is a Christan and I believed (until Obama) that he was America's worst President eva! Most of us didn't like McCain, we just voted for him. You assume a lot but know so little.

So there! Wait a minute... Did you call Cookers a dumbass? LOL!

You are so not serious. I'm done with you... You know, that whole "don't cast your pearls to swine" thing.

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