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February 25, 2010

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Maddypie

This is moral,this is legal,this is just and it is absolutely responsible.

What is disgraceful is their graduation rate and what is disrespectful is forcing the tax payers to continue to pay these loser union teachers for a job poorly done.

It IS the best thing to do and the "union" IS just going to have to put up with it.

I guess unions aren't particular about the quality of teaching. What a surprise.

Amanda Smith

why are we only seeing the black students?? Has anyone else noticed that? Is there a reason that these liberal democrat teachers NEVER teach the black kids?!! THIS IS SLAVERY!
Slavery begins in the mind. I bet theres a planned parenthood clinic close by, and the school hands out condoms too. Such kind slave masters, they think of everything.

derek

So let me get this straight. The school district tried to squeeze more time out of the teachers, without paying them for it? Why would anyone go for that? Why would a union step aside and let that happen? Now, there is a problem as to why it's even gotten to this point, but you can't fault a union for not accepting more work for less pay.

We'll leave the whole getting screwed by your employer thing to you private sector people that foolishly killed off your unions. which in turn killed off your wage growth, pensions, and damn near any other employment perk. i swear you're all going to turn this country into one big madoff ponzi scheme by the time you're done

Maddie - Saukville

Amanda, I didn't think it was possible to fall in love so fast!

Next, I'd like to hear what the children have to say about Congress.

Maddie - Saukville

Actually, that I think of it, I'm surprised MPS isn't holding Central Falls up as an example of what a good job MPS is doing! "48%, how horrible! Maybe if Central Falls cared enough to spend over a billion dollars a year they could enjoy graduation rates as high as 52 or even 53%! We're not dead last! Pop the champagne!"

Dawn

Ok, so I watched the video then read all the comments and upon reading derek's response my initial reaction was "Wha???" So I re-watch the video and now would like to ask derek this... First off, you need to get the wax out of your ears and really listen before you start spouting garbage. The pink slips are effective the next school year (That means September 2010) and doesn't mean they won't get paid from February thru June. ugghhh!!!! Derek you really do make yourself an easy target to shoot down. Stop making up stuff that isn't there.

Dawn

Ok, so I didn't officially ask derek anything, just putting in my 2 cents.

Janelle

derek, I live in a ''right-to-work" state, work for a very large company which is owned by it's employees, have the choice of three different medical insurance plans for full-time and part-time employees at a very reasonable cost and a whole host of other benefits. Fortune 100 best list of companies to work for and their requirement is simple, show up on time and do the job we hired you to do. Now pay attention, derek, when someone slips through the screening process and won't or comply with that, no union is needed. We handle that extremely well most times by ourselves. We are perfectly capable of dealing with slackers. They don't last long.

Diane

derek does that feeling that you just said something dumb ever go away?

derek

there was a news article in this entry people... i'd advise you all to read it. THEN go back to my post.

Who get's their understanding of a situation from a minute thirty youtube clip anyways? Seriously? You can watch that video 10 more times and you still won't know what the hell you're talking about.

derek

i'll give the cliff notes version since you people seem to be adverse to this whole reading thing:

________
school is failing

superintendent has reform plan

reform plan requires extra work out of teachers (tutoring sessions, more summer school hours etc)

union tries to negotiate pay for extra work

negotiations fail, union tells superintendent where those reforms can get shoved

superintendent looks to fire entire teaching staff because no reforms were implemented
________

why do i get the feeling that i'm the only one that was even remotely intellectually curious enough to read the actual news article rather then watch the video? What, did you all seriously think that these teachers are getting fired because of the state of the school... HA! This is america, you should know better then that.

It's obvious where this is going to go. There is going to be a hearing where we find out if the union or the school administration were the unreasonable ones. Why don't you all surprise me and actually stick with a story for longer than a minute youtube video and actually follow the outcome.

Adam

Derek, I am familiar with the story and still think you are a fool for your opinion. Why shouldn't the teachers put in more time? Why should they demand to be compensated extra for doing their JOB (actually educating the children rather than just putting in thier time)?
And its not like they were being asked to do THAT much more. Only in unions can this crap happen. In the REAL world you aren't entitled to be paid because you have a job. You are payed because of the value you bring to your place of employment.
Why shouldn't tax payers expect that they get good value for the teachers they hire? If I had my own business, I would hire based on the value they provided my company. So would you. And if one of my employees came in and said, "I demand more money to accomplish that task that I've been hired to do because it takes me more time," I'd fire them and then hire someone who was willing to do the job according to the value assigned to that task. In other words, the teachers are being paid to TEACH! Either do what it takes to teach or hire someone who is willing to do what it takes to teach.

Adam

Derek, I’ve been reading your comments for a while now and I need to rant…
You think you are so smart, but in reality you are nothing short of ridiculous. You work so hard to demonstrate what you believe to be your “intellectual superiority.” But it’s a sham. You have no wisdom to accompany the “facts” that you spout. You are the type of person that doesn’t have character, doesn’t have virtue, doesn’t have honor, doesn’t understand selflessness, doesn’t know how to make close friends, and doesn’t know how to be likeable. And the effort you put in to demonstrate what you believe to be intelligence just confirms your insecurity. And in the end, it is you who are clueless. Your arrogance has blinded you into believing that you are getting life right. Can't figure out why life isn't what you hoped it would be? You aren't so smart after all...

Diane

derek in you list you keep forgetting the important thing:
teachers are not teaching the students (that's what they were hired to do). Teachers not doing their job deserve to be fired!

derek

there's a difference between thinking i'm smart and knowing i'm smarter than you. either way, i have fun.

BlackinMiami

Amanda,

I wish you had read more about the entire affair before you spout some ridiculous race baiting arguments. 65% of the school's children are in fact hispanics. The one minute youtube clip may have shown black kids but to what effect? The reliance on sound bytes in this day and age is what seem to be the biggest problem in shaping ideas. I see no real point to your bringing up race in this conversation.

While I am not excusing poor performance from educators, we must realize that the failure of an entire school is not the sole responsibility of the educators. There are several factors mitigating against these students. Chief among them is a Languauge barrier coupled by dire poverty in a community where the avarage household income is hovering around $22,000.00. What has the school district done to meet the needs of the students really? And how have they helped to facilitate the educators to do a better job? Parents are equal partners in the education process and their role over time have been so seriously compromised that it has become the role of the teachers to be everything to these kids. While a great deal of learning lies with the teacher their are several other factors that can contribute to poor performance. All of these have to be addressed. I can guarantee you, that if the School Board hires a whole new team and the othere variables do not change the results won't be much different.

Firning a whole staff is kind of like asking them to take sole ownership for the failure of the school. We have seen monumnetal failures in the Private Sector before. These are usually followed by drastic restructuring of departments and resources, human and otherwise. They do not have unions, but if they did, do you suppose their unions would stand by the firing of the entire staff?

It's not all about race Amanda. It seems that way with you though. Since your debut here at the National Conversation, all of your comments have been punctuated by some unsavory and irrelevant remarks concerning race.

What is bewildering though, is the fact that you are so welcomed by all here, including the facilitator. Despite their claim of being blind to race. I think being deliberately blind to racism is more like it. But then this is the National Conversation; a place where the most vociferous contributors are a few middle aged, bitter, white women; who, despite their claim to the contrary, cannot stand the very idea of the 'chocolate jesus' in 'their' White House. Their White House which was built on the back of slave labor. Their claim, of course, is not the color of his skin but their new found concern for their beloved country, their overnight disdain for big government, and their ill-founded angst over a communist take over.

Maddypie

Adam, you absolutely pegged our little gnat.

Believe me when I tell you that he is in a secure place under treatment and being given the best drugs our health care provides.

Now the sad thing is he thinks he is in a government training school learning how to "push tin" which is slang for air traffic controller. They actually show him video's of plans taking off and landing and he uses one of those old play station knob remote controls so he thinks he is doing some thing. Yes very sad.

The doctors are hopeful that years from now he might be well enough to live in a group home.

My poor little pumpkin head you go ahead and keep posting your absurd comments. You are quite an entertaining little misfit.

James T.

Adam,

Wow. Welcome to the National Conversation. That was scary dead on.

Derek.... You ok?

Joyce

Agreed. Adam nailed it: "just confirms your insecurity."

The earlier comments too: "In the REAL world you aren't entitled to be paid because you have a job. You are payed because of the value you bring to your place of employment."

AMEN!

And... I agree w/ BinM: "the failure of an entire school is not the sole responsibility of the educators." What difference is it, the color of the students' skin!

Maddie - Saukville

BiM-agree with you as does Joyce on failure but newfound love of country? I've always loved this country no matter who was in the WH. It is in fact exactly why I'm so vociferous at present. As for my use of the term Chocolate Jesus, I use it just to get a rise out of you! In a loving way of course. I am not so sure on bitter either as speaking for myself, I'm generally very happy. Have a good weekend my friend-your Black History Month Pass expires Sunday at midnight right?

Maddypie

bim, How embarrassing for you to come to this site that you mostly "troll" and some times comment on, and have a complete melt down.

It is obvious that you hate white people and white woman in particular who have your racist number and call you out on it.
If we bring up "black people" we are racist, if we don't include "black people" we are racist.

Isn't your Prozac working today? Maybe you are out of sorts because your chocolate jesus looked like a melted chocolate mess yesterday.

Amanda, Seeing that bim thinks every one here is welcoming you I would be remiss if I too did not say welcome aboard. You must try to look past bims exploding rant.

What bim is conveniently not mentioning is in the fall of 2008 he posted the most vile hateful comments to James. bim didn't like the fact that James is a Black man and was asking John McCain to "take it to obama." Yeah bim thought James was a traitor to his race(to put it mildly.)

bim I find it quite the double standard that you are whining about who James allows to comment here. Are you kidding me. Please don't make me re-post the nasty things you said about James and his family. Despite your hate James was the bigger man and did not ban you from this site.

You owe James and Amanda an apology.
But I am wondering bim, are you a big enough man to do it?

Cookers

BIM, you were actually making some good points until you went all nuclear with the race issue.

My perspective is from that of a husband and son of teachers and have another close friend who is also a teach. I know the battles they fight and the effort they expend.

I know the extra work that they put in during the year. Yet, I struggle with the mentality of those teachers that want to be treated as professionals yet still hide behind the protection of a union. All other professionals are expected to do the work necessary to get the job done.

Personal obervations are that parental involvement is a huge indicator of educational success. Economics, as an impact, can be negated with strong parental involvement and a strong school district.

The teachers knew the stakes and the options that were being considered. They had their opportunity to work with the district. And now it is past.

derek

i've been out of okc since december, maddy. the put the lives of real people in my hands now.

BlackinMiami

ROTFLMAO,

Maddie-Saukville, thanks for the laughter. I will have a good weekend, you all do likewise.

@ Maddypie,

I am off prozac now Maddy, my current insurance doesn't cover it anymore, I am a poor teacher. Maybe I should run for Congress. Then I would be sure to get the same insurance as Senators Jon Kyl and John McCain...oh, and BO too. I just wanted to go ballistic today. Have a good weekend my friend.

@ Cookers,

My friend I speak from a personal perspective on this one as parent and teacher. Our Eucation system is in dire straits and needs urgent overhaul.

Maddypie

Thanks bim, Now I know I never have to give you the benefit of the doubt.

You are not the bigger man or some one who apologizes for mis-speaking. I have apologized many times on this site but you must be missing that attribute. Well at least you are keeping it real as to who you are.

But that's ok you continue to be an ass and James will continue to let you post.

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