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December 09, 2008

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dana michelle

What I would really like to hear from the liberals is the "upside" to the fatherless family. But I won't because there isn't one. Absolutely nothing good comes from having children with men who have no intention of taking responsibility for them. Why is it so hard for people to understand that?

We have had generation upon generation of kids that don't have the influence of a father, and where has it gotten us as a society? Most pathetic is that it is the innocent children that suffer because of the indifference of their parents. Angry, aimless, unloved and unloving children are not our hope for the future. They are only going to beget more of the same.

When is our society going to wake up and admit that this way of thinking is unacceptable? When do we put a stop to the "music" (and I use that term loosely) that glorifies it? When do we finally say enough is enough?

Blackin Miami

Dana,
I have a question. What do we do we with the current load of uloved, angry, aimless and unloving children that we now have? And what do we do to curtail this pattern in the future? It is all good and well for us to talk about the dire situation that currently holds, but what solutions do we have to offer? We forbid abortion (not that wanton use of abortion measures is the answer); and we fiercely oppose the use of conraception and family planning. Until we can find suitable alternatives to these 'immoral' and liberal supported agendas, we should not be so quick to moralize.

hsgbdmama

How about teaching responsiblity? We shout rights from the rooftops but nothing about that with every right comes a responsibility.

Who forbids family planning? Even the RCC allows for natural family planning and when used properly, there are NFP methods that are as reliable as artificial contraceptives. http://www.natural-family-planning.info/

Derek

What is this? 1982? Two decades of liberalism? We've already had welfare reform, we've already had the BS culture wars. We haven't lived under 2 decades of liberalism, we've lived under 2 decades of conservatism. We've been a center right nation for a very long time.

But the problem is that no conservatives are willing to address race specifically with their policies. Urban development, criminal justice etc. You can't just tackle welfare and taxes and think you've accomplished something.

How many conservatives are talking about getting rid of rent ceilings? They may pay lip service to school choice, but what have they really done about it? How many liberals are really running with the ball on criminal justice reform?

These things need to be talked about at a national level but libs don't like free market solutions and conservatives don't like federal solutions. So we get to this impasse where each one tries to pass the buck.

BlackinMiami

Derek,
You are right we've been a center right country pretty much for a long time and the only issues that have been seriously addresssed beyond lip service, by both Dems and Repubs' are those that bear political fruits and convert to votes. Neither side is willing to talk seriously about, much more to address issues of far reaching consequences.
GW was the first in a long time to make any serious attempt to talk about Immigration. As for rent ceilings, you can forget about any serious dialogue on that one.

And how has this helped the underclass in this country? Welfare reform sure has done nothing to modify the social and economic situaion in inner cities and rural America. All the talk of education reforms, vouchers and No Child Left Behind has left us with millions behind and a second world public education mess.

Our governments are not supppose to give handouts, they are suppose to put in place measures to facilitate its citizens in bettering their lives.

The all out war on liberals is kind of disingenuos as well because the last two decades or so has not seen any real serious liberal representation. Bill Clinton was more centrist than anything else. Sadly a real opportunity for serious liberal representation went out the back door with Al Gore in 2000.

Sure, teaching responsibilty is a good place to start. But I am sure anyone will admit that its kinda difficult to teach a concept with which we ourselves are not familiar.

Maddie, you got me.

Chris, I apologize for the insult...not my intention.

dana michelle

BlackinMiami: You've asked some valid questions.

For starters, how about teaching our children some real values and morals? Real true abstinence education. Not only in the schools but in the home. Not "Oh yeah, you can also choose to abstain from sex, but seriously, I know you won't, so here, have some condoms so at least you don't get a disease." That sends a mixed message that children shouldn't be expected to have to reason out.

The people that further that agenda never stop to think that children are way to young to understand the ramifications of those very adult actions. And I lay this squarely at the feet of liberalism because it is the liberals who have done everything in their power to force God and morality out of the schools and out of nearly every other aspect of society. It is liberals who have devalued marriage with their "anything and everything constitutes a family" rhetoric.

Children that haven't been taught that their body is the Temple of God, who haven't had a father of their own as an influence and who see their mother bringing home a new live-in boyfriend every few weeks aren't going to have the tools necessary to make good decisions concerning their own sexuality.

Add to that the absolute garbage in their music and on TV, and these impressionable minds don't stand a chance. Look at the people that our children look up to as role models. Skanky starlets, mysogynistic rappers, the selfish Hollywood elite that want children as an accessory, but don't want to be bothered with marriage. Some role models!

Those of us over 40 at least had the benefit of some societal standards to mold our minds. Today's children have almost nothing. And yet, every time a conservative tries to do something to lead society back in the right direction, they are shouted down as being old fashioned, judgemental and mean.

Was it really so bad when we had some morality in this country? Are things really better now that it's pretty much "anything goes?

God gave us His laws to protect not only our bodies, but our minds, and more importantly, our souls. I feel very sorry for the children that haven't been given the benefit of a moral compass with which to navigate life in this scary, Godless world our generation had created for them.

Derek

Black people are already one of the most religiously devout demographics in America. I don't think religion is really the answer.

Lay things at the feet of liberalism all you want but the church is just as much a failed institution for blacks as welfare (or welfare reform) is.

And don't try to separate religion from church because that makes the same mistake liberals do. For all the good intentions of an ideology, there still must be a vehicle for it.

NotAwhore2008

Blackin Miami: If Black Women like yourself learned to not Open your legs to every Ghetto man with Rims and Gold teeth then black women wouldnt be popping out babies every year and having to be on Welfare. And the only reason why so many black kids are raised without dads are because the Moms are such Whores they slept with so many guys that they dont know who the dad is, let alone 90% of the guys names. And they would rather say the kids dad is a dead beat dad then admit 2 not knowing who the father is. I will NEVER feel bad for the poor black women on welfare with a bunch of kids living in a 1 bdrm apt in the projects, because she did it to herself. No1 forced her to keep having unprotected sex & getting preg & poppin out kids 24-7. If u choose to be a Dirty Whore then u can handle Living like 1. I just feel sorry 4 the kids, cuz they dont have a choice. They deserve better. & when u become a Mother ur supposed 2 act like 1. U Should get a Job! Stop having Random sex! & GIVE THE KIDS THE LIVES THEY DESERVE!

Blackin Miami

NotAwhore,

Yours is the most idiotic posting I have read in a long time. And what's up with all the assumptions? I am not female, I do not live in the projects, I am happily married with 2 well adjusted kids, both in advanced gifted classes.
If you are talking about yourself or someone you know then...why dont you leave the Not part off your name?

Andrea A.

There is just so much wrong with that whole blather from NotAwhore, but I did take notice of something missing. Why aren't the fathers being held accountable? Women don't get pregnant themselves. And then these guys vanish and leave the women to the child-rearing. Lovely.

On a different note, perhaps another ip address to look at, huh James?

Loved your reply BlackinMiami - Funny! :)

James T

BlackinMiami,
I tried to scrub the comment but your response beat me to it. I'm glad I didn't... your response was perfect.

Kathy

BlackinMiami, I suppose you would ask a drug dealer to try and fix addiction problems? The problem with your theory is that you are looking to the government to solve the social problems in the African American community. Government and librals caused these problems and purpetuated dependence by having no expectation of self reliance or morality as well as injecting itself as the "provider" of the family.

You insult your race by discounting the GOD given talents all people have been born with and expect someone else to fix problems that can only be fixed from within or by turning to a higher power. (I'm not talking about Barack.)

Government should get out of the business of social welfare entirely and leave it up to private or religious charities to help people in need. I think people would be less likely to go to their pastor, unmarried, 21 and pregnant with her 4th child, asking for some help. What kind of advice do you think the pastor may have?

You may be quite surpised, however, at the resilence of the human spirit if put in a position of self reliance.

Drug dealing, tagging, car jacking, gangs, welfare fraud, con games, theft, etc. actually take a lot of energy and specific talents. Used negatively are crimes but with some EDUCATION and direction each of these "talents" could be turned into real jobs if applied appropriately. (I could actually write a resume for any one of these.)

Drug Dealer could translate into Sales Associate, Tagger to Painter, Car Jacker to Repo Man, Welfare Fraud to Fraud Investigator, Gang Member to Border Control, Shooter to Military Sharp Shooter.

Stop giving excuses to people who already have what they need to succeed in life but choose not to!


Derek

Once again, why is someone telling me that the most devoutly christian constituency in America needs more God. That fundamentally doesn't make sense to me. It isn't a lack of religion that hurts poor blacks, it's the failure of social institutions, be they the black church or government, to build the tools young blacks need to succeed. You can drive down any ghetto and see 2 churches for every liquor store. That doesn't really mean anything.

Just like liberals in the 80's the conservative movement is collapsing due to a lack of understanding of their public policy failure. Liberals and government are the problem? You are talking like Bush didn't implement faith based initiatives for charity, like welfare reform hasn't happened, like tax policy hasn't changed. We've a conservative movement that's been premised on traditional marriage in charge. we've had abstinence only education, we've had all the BS talking points any conservative has been blabbing about since the late seventies.

Accept your failure and move on to real solutions.

Kathy

What I said was that GOD has already provided! And that what we need LESS GOVERMENT. It's really easy to be get a check in the mail and not have to face anyone. Our "politically correct" society holds no-one to any sort of moral standards and actually encourages dependence.

And are you kidding me about faith based initiatives, abstinence only education and tax policy? I don't know where you live, but my taxes are huge, public schools don't teach abstinence and my church has never received government assistance. Government has never GOTTEN OUT of the social services business.

Kathy

Also, government will never be able to give children the tools they need to succeed. A strong family is the only thing that can do that and by encouraging immorality will destroy the family.

Blackin Miami

Kathy,

I have talked about this situation at length before and all I am going to say is that your arguments do not hold water and your assumptions are so lacking.

All of the vices you listed above and dependence on government is not a forte of the black community. You need to cut the generalisations and start putting forth real arguments if you want to be a apart of this constuctive discourse.

Kathy

My fortes are not directed solely at the black communities, sorry if it sounded that way, that was not the intent of my comment. The types of crime/criminal activity that I mentioned are undeniably plaguing our areas of poverty, not solely, but to a higher degree. I don't think you can say that the destruction of the family, in and out of poverty, aren't a factor in the types of activities people choose to engage in.

What I was trying to point out is that people who choose to engage in criminal activity have talents that could be used to succeed in life. In other words, most people in poverty and on government assistance aren't lazy, without skill just sitting around doing nothing. They have abilities that could translate into actual successful careers. They just haven't been raised with direction. The piece they are missing is the strong supportive family. This cannot be provided by the government.

Answer this, in any family, is there a time when we should "kick the babies out of the nest"? I don't believe we do our children a service by letting them live at home forever. How many successful people do you know who are 30 years old and older living with their parents?

Blackin Miami

Kathy,

Thanks for the clarification. I am not sure how much you are aware but there is in fact a disproportainate part of the black urban communities that is plagued by these vices. But I also maintain that rural poverty in America is at an alarming rate. The fact is the Family, the Church and Social Institutions have failed a significant part of our population. The government has not really done much to help either. I would not however go as far as to say government and liberal are responsible for the lack of progress in some quarters of our society.
It is a fact that at some point every capable offspring of whatever species must be weaned. It is also a universal truth that this weaning is a process and if parts of the process is neglected then the newly weaned specie will have some difficulty surviving. During Slavery in the Britrish West Indies, the Church worked extensively, against the wishes of the slaveholders, to educate the slaves. When they began talks of abolition of slavery a period of Emancipation was enacted to ensure a smooth transistion from 'bondsmen' to 'freemen'. Very much like our period of Reconstruction. Admittedly the slave population of the BWI was way smaller than that of America, not to mention the vastness of our geography. Consequently their period of transition went a bit more smoothly and government was able to move form provder to facilitator. The BWI's African population was able to become , not without struggle, a significant part of their new society. The weaning process.

Kathy, you and I know how ours went. You know the problems of Reconstruction, the resistance of the Jim Crow South and the institutionalized denials of black efforts to overcome the setbacks. While this is not an excuse, it is a big part of the problems that America's poor face today. Then there was the Civil Rights movement and the rise of the entitlement blacks. The Conservatives like to talk about black peoples dependence on government but how often do they talk about the fact that if government had served the role of facilitator for the underclass in a Capitalist society we would not have had this widening gap between the haves and the have nots. It is not so much that these people depend on government, they have come from a sociology where the necessary steps to get them off the breast had some very serious flaws.

The church and many of our other social institutions have failed in these critical areas. We can preach morality and good family values as much as we want; and don't think I am aagainst that. The fact is without a center, a springboard from which you can launch economic independence there cannot be an adherence to law and order. The church can take care of the spiritual need of the man, but how does he take care of his economic needs: pay the rent, keep the heat on, put food on the table? Instead of a thrust for better schools, equity in opportunities for all its citizens the government implement welfare programs piecemeal. How then this is the fault of the underprivileged? If you do not teach your young to survive in the real world, Kathy, they will have a tough time swimming. The seas are rough out here.

Yes, these are otherwise capable people who carjack, sell drugs, hang out at the cornerstore, those who choose to be lawbreakers and misfits can become worthwhile citizens. But I will agree with you that for the most part they have been caught up in a vicious cycle of destruction. Murder and mayhem characterize the daily life in most of America's inner city. The 1980's saw the beginning of the drug culture and the 1990's the AIDs epidemic. Lot of these people are hopeless lost people and so we have lost a generation or two. Who then shall provide the inspiration to the current generation? With parents strung out on drugs and dead or dying of HIV, what can these kids do? Foster Care? ever heard of that and its accompanying atrocities? The problem looms Kathy and until we all are able to do something about it, until Liberals can move beyond their talk of social justice and humanity and put these into practical solutions, until the Church realize that packaging Christ to sunday school kids is only symbolic of what is really needed, until we have more folks who are willing to work to change the face of poverty and crime and drugs in our inner cities, until conservatives stop blaming liberals and heaping all their frustrations for some of their failed policies on the rest of the world, until the black community wake up and realize that their success hinge on their own efforts and attitude we are all doomed to be the victim of the next criminal we create.

Kathy

One more comment on why government is NOT the solution. Liberals try to argue that the problem is money and the lack of opportunities provided by the government. Programs for the poor or increased support can do nothing to improve the lives of people who have been raised without morals and direction. Which again, the government cannot provide.

One example would be to look at people who have been raised with all the money and opportunities a person can have and still fail to succeed. Take Paris Hilton for example. Is she successful? She's famous but is she actually successful. She has had access to more opportunities and education 99% of the world has. Take the fame and the money away and what do you have? She would be another statistic on government assistence had she been born in the inner-city.

Blackin Miami

"Take paris Hilton"

What is America's definition of success? She may not be the role model you or I want for our children, but by our material definition of success, the definition that does not incude the morals of which you speak; she is damn well VERY SUCCESSFUL...Now is she morally bankrupt, is she the poster child for the rich and the misguided child...well there are way many more of her out there. I cannot answer those questions though; those are above my 'pay grade'. lol

Kathy

Generations are definately lost and I don't know how to fix that, however, our overly sympathetic social policies will only prolong the problems into many more lost generations. Our child welfare programs work hard to keep children with their biological families even if the family situation is horrible. Children are gifts that need to be protected and charished. Until we start to focus on where THEY would be better off we cannot begin to make a difference.

We must make the tough decisions, just as parents need to, with their own children because they know it is the right thing not the easy thing. We need to STOP believing that people cannot make it without some form of government program.

Kick them out of the nest and watch them fly!

Kathy

"America's definition of success." My point exactly...

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